I have an issue.

"shpuker" (shpuker)
01/08/2014 at 16:35 • Filed to: None

I graduate in just over 2 years, and my gift to myself is going to be a new daily driver around the $30k mark. By then I'm expecting the new STI hatch to be a thing again, the new Chrysler 200 will be well into it's production, and the new Golf R will be into production (Maybe even the Scirrocco R if we get super lucky). I'm not going to be able to decide.

Talk about a good problem. The amount of performance that can be had around $30,000 in AWD semi practical form is insane. We're going to have a (hopefully) 320hp Subaru again, a 290hp Golf, a 290hp Chrysler (hopefully a juvenile and lighter Dodge version with a hatch... Please?), and who knows what else I'm forgetting. It's almost like automakers are listening to their customers now. I like it.

And no I'm not being sarcastic putting the Chrysler in a category with the STI. Sure it doesn't have a manual option. But by the time it gets refaced as the Avenger's replacement (what I'm assuming they'll do) and hatched up to fill the gap the Caliber left, you can't not put it in the same category. I wouldn't put a 3.6L Dodge hatch 6-speed version of that car completely out of thought. I'd buy the shit out of it personally.

Whatta you guys think though? What are your personal thoughts on these cars and others potentially to follow, and do you think they'll actually sell?

DISCUSSION (55)

Party-vi > shpuker
01/08/2014 at 16:37

*290hp Golf.

I wouldn't hold my breath for an STi hatch.

Textured Soy Protein > shpuker
01/08/2014 at 16:37

So um...you're going to be able to afford a $30k car right when you graduate?

shpuker > Textured Soy Protein
01/08/2014 at 16:39

Mechanical engineering. Give it a month or 12 and I should in theory be in a comfortable spot.

TheCraigy > shpuker
01/08/2014 at 16:39

Wait the two years and then ask yourself if you're still interested in any of the above.

shpuker > Party-vi
01/08/2014 at 16:40

I can't imagine Subaru is going to ditch the hatch all together. On that same note I wouldn't be that surprised if they did.

shpuker > TheCraigy
01/08/2014 at 16:41

Knowing how much of a douche I tend to be. Probably will.

Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ > shpuker
01/08/2014 at 16:42

The Subi will sell for sure that's for sure. I'm not sure about the other two though the Golf R is sort of obscure in my opinion where the average person might not know about it. I prefer the Subaru but that's just brand loyalty, although givin the chance i wouldn't mind the R. I just wish we got the S series of performance Subarus.

PS9 > Textured Soy Protein
01/08/2014 at 16:43

It's not impossible. $30k + $3k down with a five year agreement at 5% APR would about ~$560/month. Sounds like a lot, but if he's got a decent job lined up and isn't planning on getting a mortgage to go with it, it's doable.

I'd opt to rebuild a $1k shitbox and rock that til the loans were paid off, and not fucking ever entertain the idea of a goddamn car payment for any fucking reason ever, but that's just me. Kudos to the OP if he can do it and it brings him happiness.

shpuker > Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ
01/08/2014 at 16:44

Pretty much my thinking. Figure the Golf R will work it's way to R32 status in a few years. It won't find it's way to STI status any time soon though.

Shankems > shpuker
01/08/2014 at 16:46

1st, get a place, rented or bought, with a garage, and a nice flat area to do work, jack up car , etc. Then get your car. A garage and some flat space make ALL the difference in the world.

TheCraigy > shpuker
01/08/2014 at 16:47

Haha. In that case, nix the chrysler and the golf R and get the STI.

Textured Soy Protein > shpuker
01/08/2014 at 16:50

Ah, yeah makes sense as long as you don't have a bunch of student loans to pay off. Anyway to answer your question, rather than pry into your financial situation...

I doubt there will be any WRX or STi hatches anymore.

The new Golf R will have 290 hp .

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

The closest we'll see to a hot hatch version of the 200 is the Alfa Romeo Giuletta 1750 TBi Cloverleaf , if Fiat ever gets around to you know, selling it here.

DailyTurismo > shpuker
01/08/2014 at 16:52

Pickup an 04/05 STi for $15k and watch the value stay flat. If you get sick of it, sell in 1, 2 or 5 years for the same amount. KBB prices have actually increased in the last 3 years on 04 STis with under 100k miles. Just my $0.02.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > shpuker
01/08/2014 at 16:53

You're never too old to drive a car with an obnoxious wing. Some people might claim to be too "mature" (whatever that is), but secretly they want to drive one too.

Graduated in... lets just leave that at "some time ago" and drives an '07 STI.

shpuker > PS9
01/08/2014 at 16:54

I don't like the idea of rocking a car payment (sitting around $210 for my WRX right now and I already hate paying that) but I'm going to need something reliable and I'm not about to go pick up a Civic and call it a day. Couldn't do that to myself.

Plan would be to pick one up with a pretty much empty options list, possibly order one, and trade in whatever I'm driving at the time (or sell it outright) on top of a down payment. Assuming I save up enough money working through school and summer internships (that I'll hopefully get) should be around $5k down. With taxes set into the loan that's a solid $600 and change per month. Not cheap but certainly possible. I'd be sitting in an apartment in an area probably around Detroit, so not very expensive rent, probably 500 or so a month. So $1,100 a month plus a few different varieties of insurance and some food money, call it $2,00 a month, should be making well over that.

shpuker > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much
01/08/2014 at 16:55

Damn straight. If you grow up you grow old.

Tom McParland > shpuker
01/08/2014 at 16:55

All are viable options but if you are anything like me you may change your favorite "someday" car every month. So who knows what will be available then...but these hypotheticals are fun to toss around. Personally I'm going with a CPO F30 328 for that price

shpuker > DailyTurismo
01/08/2014 at 16:56

Very much a possibility too. If I did that I'd have something else as a DD/backup plan though. Because lesbi-honest, if I was buying a then 10-11 year old STI I'd be doing some work on it. Whether in mods or general repairs.

shpuker > Textured Soy Protein
01/08/2014 at 16:59

I'll have some, not too much to the point of not being able to swing a car payment though.

I hope there are. If they release a new one then the debates over and find me a pen.

Yea someone else corrected that too. Certainly makes it sound a bit nicer.

I could see it coming over in the form of a Dodge/SRT of some sort. I wouldn't complain.

Where have all the lightweights gone? > PS9
01/08/2014 at 17:01

What about student loans? That could be greater than or equal to the car payment.

Brian Silvestro > Tom McParland
01/08/2014 at 17:03

Would you rather have a CPO F30 or E90? I can't imagine the turbo-4 being as fun as the straight 6.

Textured Soy Protein > shpuker
01/08/2014 at 17:24

Speaking as someone who has probably spent more money on cars than I should , even if you're making good money right out of school and have manageable fixed expenses, the more money you can save up when you're young, the better off you'll be.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Just as an example, I'm 31 and have been on a relatively similar income trajectory to what you would expect with an ME degree. While I've always had some kind of interesting car, I've also religiously saved up money and contributed to my 401k and other investments. I could easily do more saving/investing if I wasted less money on cars, but hey whatever we all have our vices.

Some numbers:

Every $1000 worth of car you finance, is roughly $20/mo payment. If you got a $20-25k car instead of a $30k car, that's $100-200/mo you're not spending. Right in the middle of that range is $1800 a year that you could be using to make principal payments on your student loans so you end up paying less interest in the long run.

Or...let's say for the 4-5 years you're paying off the loan, you put that $1800 into your 401k, and it earns 8% interest yearly. After 30 years, that $7200-9000 initial investment will be worth about 10x as much.

That's not to say you shouldn't get a fun car. Because hey, I like fun cars. Fun cars are fun. But think about the overall financial picture and not just in terms of covering your monthly expenses, and do something that allows you to both have fun and save up for the future.

CPT Speedbump > shpuker
01/08/2014 at 17:33

Older sti's > any new sti ever. Chrysler 200? just..ewe... Golf R - yeah, go with that, or a older sti :)

TheCraigy > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much
01/08/2014 at 17:38

TheCraigy > shpuker
01/08/2014 at 17:39

Yeah not really an age thing but possibly an image thing. You'll be surprised how much your taste changes over time, and how what you want will be different when you finally have the cash flow to make the decisions. In college I lusted after S2000's, STI's C5 Z06's, etc. which all have zero appeal to me now. I still think they're great cars though. ENJOY IT WHILE YOU STILL CAN ;)

shpuker > CPT Speedbump
01/08/2014 at 18:07

I wouldn't be too quick to judge on all fronts there. The platform the new 200 sits on (the Dart's platform basically) is actually very decent. High hopes for the new STI as well. We'll see how that goes though.

shpuker > Textured Soy Protein
01/08/2014 at 18:11

Certainly taking everything into account still. If all goes as planned though I should be sitting in a spot for a few years out of college where my only expenses are going to be food, a place to live, a car and insurance. If it stays as that I'll have a lot of money getting saved up, if not however, then it gets more complicated. So with that in mind it pays to plan as if your situation always has the possibility of going south.

CPT Speedbump > shpuker
01/08/2014 at 18:11

New cars in general as getting too heavy, and the new sti just looks..fat..heavy, obese..i could go on, I'm sure a older sti will be more fun (less computers in the way) and quicker for the hp.

shpuker > CPT Speedbump
01/08/2014 at 18:18

2012 STI has a curb weight of 3,300lbs, the 2004 sits at 3,200. It really isn't adding much weight at all. It's going ot have more power, and really the only nannies added on are traction and stability control, both of which can be fully deactivated.

shpuker > Shankems
01/08/2014 at 18:20

Wise words.

Textured Soy Protein > shpuker
01/08/2014 at 18:21

Just sayin...you can still have plenty of fun with a Focus ST, Fiesta ST, regular WRX, GTI, GLI, Civic Si, MS3, Abarth, Toyobaru, etc. There will be plenty of years down the line to buy stupider, more expensive cars.

shpuker > Tom McParland
01/08/2014 at 18:22

Knowing what little I do about your taste I'd say an F31 would be more likely for your future ;) I hear you though. I find myself drooling over way too many cars I can't afford to know what I'm gonna buy 2 years down the road.

shpuker > Textured Soy Protein
01/08/2014 at 18:24

Very true. On a somewhat related note: I think I'm one of the few people that's driven a new Focus ST and not liked it...

CPT Speedbump > shpuker
01/08/2014 at 18:27

100 pounds is alot when every ounce counts, lol, and easy to gain power with any car ;) I'm sure you could easily build a 400 hp 2004 wrx for less then 30 k

shpuker > CPT Speedbump
01/08/2014 at 18:34

Yes you could buy a 2004 STI and build it up for $30k, but it wouldn't be new and it wouldn't have a warranty. Not to mention it would also have a 2004 Subaru interior, which if you haven't seen, is shit. (Given the 05's are much nicer inside, still not anywhere near new car quality).

CPT Speedbump > shpuker
01/08/2014 at 18:36

New cars have to be babied to much for my liking, and for 30 k, you could fix the interior issue, lol

shpuker > CPT Speedbump
01/08/2014 at 18:38

If you think a new car needs to be babied too much then you've certainly never owned a 400hp 11 year old STI that you just dropped $15,000 of non-financable, non-insurable cash into.

CPT Speedbump > shpuker
01/08/2014 at 18:41

wheels tires and body work would still be pretty cheap (possibly) compared to a new car. and you could fix it yourself isntead of something ending up on your insurance (depending what happens) I guess the 200 would be ok now that its fiat owned.. i like fiat

shpuker > CPT Speedbump
01/08/2014 at 18:53

Aftermarket wheels (that would almost certainly be on it) are going to be the exact same cost as with the new STI. Same lug pattern, very close in size. Same with tires. New STI isn't going to be much more computer controlled than the previous gen, just add in direct injection and take away any possibility of changing injectors in your garage and you'll be set up in the same place you were with the older ones. You'll still need someone who knows what they're doing to tune it correctly for any modification you do.

The platform the 200 sits on is a great platform though. I'm expecting some great things out of that car, and what I can only imagine is going to come of replacing the Avenger. Hoping they use the same platform and make a hatchback version of it. Wishful thinking though if Subaru doesn't release a hatchback STI I could see the guys over at SRT begging the higher ups to let them build a 6-speed AWD 3.6L or Turbo 3.2L (Maybe even a big turbo on the 2.4L they were talking about for a while) hatchback on that platform.

CPT Speedbump > shpuker
01/08/2014 at 18:59

hence the possibly :) Just wait and import a 22b ;) and awd would be cool, I honestly can't stand driving fwd cars..unless they're cheap, and thus I'm fine with hooning the hell out of them.

shpuker > CPT Speedbump
01/08/2014 at 19:04

As much as I'd love a 22b I'd much sooner buy a 2.5RS and go to town on that than throw the money into getting a real one imported. an R34 however is much much more likely (once it's legal obviously).

New 200 will have AWD available though. Which with that 3.6 is very necessary.

CPT Speedbump > shpuker
01/08/2014 at 19:07

R32 maybe... Cosworth Escort's are what I'm excited for :) and nice, small car for a 3.6 ..could be fun

Tom McParland > shpuker
01/08/2014 at 19:30

I wouldn't be able to find an F31 2yrs down the road for 30k with any type of decent miles. And because I am crazy I just can't forgive BMW for only offering an auto on that car. I do have a 3-4 year plan to pick up a CPO V60

Tom McParland > Brian Silvestro
01/08/2014 at 19:31

Two years down the road CPO E90s will be hard to come by. Also I like the extra space of the F30 and even though the N20 doesn't have the "soul" of the N52 it is a damn quick car.

shpuker > Tom McParland
01/08/2014 at 19:31

This is true. I could certainly live with a V60.

Tom McParland > shpuker
01/08/2014 at 19:34

But with a well equipped V60 R-design (really the only way to go IMO) stickering new at about 47k, 2-3 years down the road you are probably looking at used around 35-38k. Polestars will probably sticker for 50k + so that is out too.

shpuker > Tom McParland
01/08/2014 at 19:35

Lies. You're obviously going to win the lottery and be able to easily afford a dozen of them.

Brian Silvestro > Tom McParland
01/08/2014 at 19:36

Yeah the legroom in the rear of the E90 is virtually nonexistent, but dat straight 6...

Tom McParland > shpuker
01/08/2014 at 19:39

Oh if I win the lottery I am going straight to my Mercedes dealer and ordering an E63 AMG S wagon, then contacting Singer for a 911 build. :)

Tom McParland > Brian Silvestro
01/08/2014 at 19:40

I've driven the E90 a few times and did enjoy winding out the 6...but I was quite impressed by the F30 as well.

shpuker > Tom McParland
01/08/2014 at 19:44

I like the way you think. Used Gallardo that'll then get a full rebuild and a nice lil twin-turbo setup and a built 2013 Ram 1500 shortbed regular cab for me.

Brian Silvestro > Tom McParland
01/08/2014 at 19:56

I've had mixed feelings about the F30, I really have to drive one. They do look pretty good with their wider stance and such. Saw a 3-Series GT with the M sport package and that expensive looking blue, not too bad looking. How long before I get shot by the oppo patrol for that? (just to be clear the 5 series GT is the ugliest thing they've ever made)

Tom McParland > Brian Silvestro
01/08/2014 at 20:26

I had mixed feelings as well until I drove it. If you think about it more like a modern E39 it puts it into perspective. The 3GT isn't terrible... I might be tempted by one if I could get 3 pedals.

Brian Silvestro > Tom McParland
01/08/2014 at 20:32

According to BMWUSA.com, you can't. But if they come out with a M3 GT, they might. I'd still buy that over an M4. I'd feel wrong owning that car. Keep the bloodline(kind of) pure.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > shpuker
01/08/2014 at 22:03

With CAFE regs... and turbo thirst for fuel and affects on the passenger car side of the CAFE average sheet. (the last three letters are Average Fuel Economy, after all)

Subaru saying no 5-door WRX or STI... there is almost no chance of a lower ride height 5-door.

It is entirely more likely that they'll try and shift half the demand to the Light Truck side of the CAFE sheet, and put the WRX drivetrain (hopefully STI, too, but not holding my breath) into the XV Crosstrek 5-door.

I would bet on a Turbocharged XV Crosstrek, before a USDM 5-door WRX or STI with low ride height. Overseas would be another story.